Wednesday, January 25, 2012

Questions on Mars Hill Church Discipline

One of the men I have served with in ministry recently posted on facebook about a blog addressing a specific disciplinary action by Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill Church. I expressed that I am not sure that I disagree with the post and those that followed up, but I am also unsure if I agree. You may follow the link above to see the entire conversation. Following is my final questions for those who have posted in the facebook stream. Feel free to look at the original blog and provide feedback. I am learning, as I hope we all are, and I pray that we may all learn from these circumstances.

Josh and Dillon,

You both use the term "unbiblical" in your statement about the contract and letter, but are not specific. In the letter, scripture is provided. I am curious to hear specifically what you find unbiblical. They provide scriptural support for the actions they have taken. What is your scriptural argument against them? Church discipline is Biblical, and as a pastor I have struggled and studied seriously to resolve the very things with which you appear to be struggling. I too, from the presentation provided on the surface, struggle with how they handled the situation. I am, however, interested in how you would deal with the specific scriptures they provide.

I am not trying to be argumentative. I believe that the goal of real discipline is always reformative and restorative by nature. It appears to me that you do not see any restoration in the interaction between Andrew and MH. I wonder if we are not seeing the whole picture. Could Andrew be worse than is presented in "his" side of the story? Could we see between the lines in phrases like, “a pattern of unrepentant sexual sin” and “over the course of many months”, that perhaps Andrew has a greater problem than is revealed to us? Perhaps the required confession, meetings, and description of "wolf" behavior are simply the leadership attempting to shake him into the realization of the severity of his sexual sin (which is taken very seriously in scripture). I do not know. I was not there. If this is their goal, is that bad?

I would also ask that you consider the possibility of bias by the author himself. In the second addition of his post he makes the statement, “We discuss Mark Driscoll a lot at this blog. His sermons. His theology. His sexist rants. His rage against Avatar. His sincere love for hell. And all of those topics are valid for discussion, disagreeing, and sometimes poking fun at”. I wonder how much slant is contained in the writing and presentation by the blogger himself. If it is simply as presented, I find myself leaning toward your reaction, but I wonder if we are reacting to the appearance of evil rather than to what may truly be evil.

I personally do not know much about Mark Driscoll or Mars Hill. I typically do not follow the mega churches or leaders of the same. What I do know is that Jesus Himself established the church, and I am hesitant to make judgments about another body of believers or church leadership without knowing all the facts. Truths are often misunderstood, twisted and biased in print and other media.

So, if you do not mind, if you were to assume that Andrew had a serious problem and needed real church discipline, would you exegete the passages MH has quoted and demonstrate how they are abusing them? Additionally, would you provide any other scriptures that deal specifically with church discipline to demonstrate how what MH did with Andrew was unbiblical?

Please understand that I really have no desire to argue. This will be my final post unless you ask me a question or specifically to respond. I would be happy to provide any word studies or other resources in which you are interested. My intent is not to “debate” the issue. I am seeking to understand better your response to the blog, and the perspective from which you are responding.

Be blessed,
Scott

Sunday, November 14, 2010

Checking CellSpin out

Had a great time with my beautiful bride & daughter, and the great students who went to the OBU Homecoming game!

Sunday, October 10, 2010

Being a Watchman

Ezekiel 3:16-21(HCSB)
16Now at the end of seven days the word of the LORD came to me: 17“Son of man, I have made you a watchman over the house of Israel. When you hear a word from My mouth, give them a warning from Me. 18If I say to the wicked person:£ You will surely die, but you do not warn him—you don’t speak out to warn him about his wicked way in order to save his life—that wicked person will die for his iniquity. Yet I will hold you responsible for his blood. 19But if you warn a wicked person and he does not turn from his wickedness or his wicked way, he will die for his iniquity, but you will have saved your life. 20Now if a righteous person turns from his righteousness and practices iniquity, and I put a stumbling block in front of him, he will die.£ If you did not warn him, he will die because of his sin and the righteous acts he did will not be remembered. Yet I will hold you responsible for his blood. 21But if you warn the righteous person that he should not sin, and he does not sin, he will indeed live because he listened to ëyourû warning, and you will have saved your life.”

Questions to ask from this scripture...
1. Was Ezekiel, as a watchman over Israel, the only person to whom these verses apply?
2. Do these verses imply that we will be held accountable for failure to share the truth of God's word with others when we know their actions will bring destruction?
3. How should these verses change how you relate to other people?
4. Is there a limit to who you might warn of danger? If so what are those limits?

As a pastor, I have always found it difficult to remain silent when I here or see obvious evil or violations of God's word and His principles for living. This doesn't always make life easy. Some people just don't want to hear what the Bible says, or at least what it says when it is critical of their lives.

Where do we draw the line? When do we share wisedom from God's word, and when do we remain silent? I am praying that people will respond to this post, but if you do respond, I would ask that you support all your contributions with contextual scripture references.

Monday, September 27, 2010

God's Protection of His Children

It’s Monday morning and I just wanted to take a moment and give God praise and thanksgiving. Last week was a pretty rough week, at least relatively speaking. I had three men in the hospital or getting out of the hospital, and I had to deal with the police at school in a very unpleasant situation. There have been several sleepless nights praying about everything that have gone on. All of this in addition to the normal daily responsibilities of driving a school bus, supervising In School Detention and substitute teaching nearly every day for three weeks straight. I thank the Lord for His sustenance in the midst of the struggle. I thank the Lord for a church body who loves me and my family. I thank the Lord for his answered prayers for my sister-in-law (I think of her as a sister), Kathy.

Between working at the school, visiting, and preparation for Sunday’s services, this past week has flown by. I am finding that though a goal of blogging every day is commendable, it is not a reality.

I am reading today in Genesis 21, the story of Isaac’s birth and God’s protection of Hagar and Ishmael. In this story, we once again see Sarah becoming jealous of Hagar and Ishmael. Sarah asks Abraham to send Hagar and Ishmael away to which he acquiesces. Hagar finds herself in the wilderness with all her water expended. Without hope, Hagar sets Ishmael under a bush and abandons him to die. God speaks to Hagar and tells her to go pick up her son and then reveals to her a water well nearby. We will often give up hope in a situation before we look for and find God’s solution. In 1 Corinthians 10:13 it says, “13No temptation (Gk. Peirasmos = experience [of evil], solicitation, discipline or provocation); by implication adversity:—temptation) has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.” This passage is translated and used primarily to give hope in overcoming the temptation to sin. In truth, the passage encompasses much more than just temptation. This verse is a promise of overcoming evil or trials of any type in one’s life. When in the worst of difficulties we may know that we are not alone either as we go through the struggle or in the nature of the struggle itself. With this knowledge we know that God will sustain us just as He has those who have gone before us.

The struggle this past week involved a student in school telling a lie that I had done something which I hadn’t. I am not unfamiliar to people lying about me. What made this situation more difficult was the student’s uncle called my home late at night and made the accusation. The result was a sleepless night for not only me, but my wife as well. The uncle reported the alleged incident to the police, but when the police interviewed the student, it became evident the student had made the story up. God sustained us through it, and with the promise in Romans 8:28: “And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose”, we have come through and God has used the situations to address some potential problems at the school. I pray that the student involved understands the seriousness of making false accusations and the damage it can have on a person’s life, even when the accusation is not a violation of any laws. It would be my preference to have avoided the situation completely, but I find comfort in the knowledge that God has used this to work things out at the school to prevent similar accusations in the future.

Thank you Lord for once again protecting your child.

Wednesday, September 22, 2010

Catching up again!

I have fallen behind a few days, so I’ll try to catch up. I had a wonderful weekend with our daughter, Rachel, for her 19th birthday. She came home from college for the weekend. It is a blessing to see what God is doing in her life. Today I’ll start by sharing some of what she is doing and then I will follow up with what has been going on in my life.

Rachel is still trying to find a church. It sounds like she is looking for something where she can be involved. This makes her father very proud. She is also giving up her Friday nights each week to go to the city to help with an inner city children’s outreach program through Oklahoma Baptist University. It is so exciting to see her heart being expressed on her own.

As for my last few days, Saturday and Sunday were spent with Rachel trying to spoil her, and Monday and Tuesday were spent substituting at the school.

Saturday I was able to work on my message for Sunday in the morning while Machelle and Rachel went into town to go shopping, scary as that may be! That evening, we went out to dinner at the Deckboat Steak house with Machelle’s mom, Jodie and three of Rachel’s closest friends, Steven, Kadree, and Michaela. They were all a blessing to be around that night, to hear what is going on in their lives now that they are all out of their parents’ homes and in college.

Sunday was a day of blessings. Sunday morning I preached from Genesis 16 on Abram’s poor choice of listening to his wife Sarai. Under normal circumstances I always encourage husbands to consider the counsel of their wives, but in this passage, Abram shouldn’t have even heard the suggestion of Sarai. If you haven’t ever read the passage, I began my message with Genesis 12:1-5, which is the background of the passage. You need to read it first. The Genesis 12 passage tells the story of God’s command for Abram to leave his home and family to “Go to a land I will show you.” This is the only command given. Following the command God makes seven promises to Abram and one later when they enter Canaan which is an implicit promise for children.

In Gen 16 Abram and Sarai are now in their 80’s and still have not had any children. There is no indication that Abram put pressure on Sarai, but if he wasn’t she was likely taking the responsibility on herself. The net result was that she offered her handmaid to Abram to sleep with so Abram could have a child, and according to custom, the child would legally be considered the offspring of Sarai. Of course, what is legal and what happens in real life are often two separate realities. Hagar began to be disrespectful toward Sarai, which caused Sarai angry and resentful.

It would be easy to limit this story to the necessity of the husband being the head of the home, tying it to Genesis 2-3. I am convinced that this passage has much larger implications for our lives than just authority and responsibility in the home, though this truth is included. This passage should also be tied to Genesis 12, God’s call/command and promises for Abram. In Genesis 12, God calls/commands Abram to leave the land of his family and go to the land God would show him. With the command, God makes seven promises: 1) make him a great nation, 2) bless him, 3) make his name great, 4) make Abram a blessing, 5) bless those who bless Abram, 6) curse those who treat Abram with contempt, and 7) bless all the people of the earth through Abram. Later, when Abram arrived with his family in Canaan, God promised to give the land of Canaan to Abram and his “offspring.”

Implicit in this promise is that Abram would have children. It is impossible to know the dynamics of the home, but would not be unreasonable to consider that Sarai felt pressure to have a child for Abram from both Abram and society in general. Beside the societal pressures, there was the obvious pressure of seeing the promises of God fulfilled. This is where the trouble begins. Reflecting back on the command and promises, the command is very simple, “Go.” To go is the only requirement placed on Abram, and there were no requirements placed on Sarai.

In Scripture we see evidence of two types of promises from God. The first is conditional. These types of promises are expressed in this way, “if you… I will….” The second type are unconditional and are express in this way, “I will….” In the second the “if you…” is omitted from the promise. All the promises God made to Abram in Genesis 12 are of the second type, unconditional.

There was never any need for Abram or Sarai to feel pressure to have a child. God had made the promise. The problem then becomes one of trust. Abram and Sarai failed to trust God to fulfill His promise to provide “offspring” for Abram. Some might say, “well what do you expect? Abram and Sarai were now in their 80’s! How can you expect them to still believe that they would have a child?” The answer is simple. It was God who had made the promise. If you understand the nature of God, there will be not limits to trusting that God will fulfill His promises.

We are no different today. We read in the Bible promises God makes to us, but we live like they will never happen. We think the economy is not good enough for us to be blessed. We believe we are too old to follow in God’s calling on our lives. We say, “I don’t have the talent, I’m too young, I’m too old, I don’t have the resources, etc, etc.” Whatever the excuse, it is not statement of our doubt in ourselves; it is a statement of our doubt in God. What words do you use to express your doubt in God?
We had a wonderful lunch with Machelle’s mother, Rachel, and Steven. It was a relaxing afternoon of football and then preparation for Sunday night.

Sunday night Discipleship and Worship were both a blessing. We are still studying stewardship in discipleship. We are learning that discipleship is not limited to how much you give in money, but it is how you manage your life. Sunday night’s discussion was exceptional. Our conversation centered on the idea that it is not what your occupation is, but rather who you are in your occupation. God has given us this life, and He calls us to live it for Him. One of those present made the observation that in their occupation it is impossible to meet the standards that have been set. In this person’s circumstances, they had reached the conclusion that they needed to work hard, but in the end, it is the impact they are having in the lives of those around them.
Stewardship is a whole life concept. It definitely does include what you give in your tithe (10% of gross income) and offerings, but it is far more comprehensive.

Stewardship involves how you manage “all” your finances, all your talents, all your gifts, all your time, all your positions. The general principle is that God owns everything, including all of you and everything you own.

In the Sunday evening worship service, we looked at the first chapter of Ezekiel. We reviewed the principle of apocalyptic Biblical literature and principles of interpretation. Primarily that symbols were used to share about real events or truths that those who are under persecution would understand, but the persecutors would not understand. Next, we looked at theories on what many of the symbols in the first chapter. We discovered that while some symbols may be understood, wise and godly men have disagreed for many years, so it is far better to attempt to find the overall theme than try to discover a detailed understanding of what is going to happen in the future. As history is revealed we may discover exactly what the symbols meant, but until then it is better to understand that God is in control if we know what is going to happen or not.
Monday and Tuesday, I found myself working in Mrs. Smith’s resource room as a substitute. Many of the students in her class find it difficult to focus, so it is often challenging to keep the students on task. Every time I spend time in one of our resource classes I gain a newfound appreciation for the incredible teachers we have at Hydro-Eakly Schools.

Both Monday and Tuesday were frustrating days on my bus route. One of the drivers who drive one of the Eakly routes was late on both days. This same driver is late at least 2-3 days a week which has a negative effect on the other two routes. Both the other driver and I have tried to talk to her multiple times, so I finally decided to speak to our principle. It is frustrating to feel the need to go to an authority, but there are times it is necessary for the overall good. It is never good to keep students on a bus without making progress. They get discouraged and bored, which leads to nothing but problems.

The same is true of any group. When a group fails to see direction or progress we become discouraged. The leader becomes discouraged; the people become discouraged; everyone becomes discouraged. Soon there is discouragement and a lack of drive and purpose. If a group continues without progress or a goal for too long it becomes lethargic and passive in its stated purposes. Eventually the ministry becomes nothing more than a social gathering.

Proverbs 29:18(KJV)
Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.

Thursday, September 16, 2010

Finding a Way

I am disappointed with myself. I woke up late this morning and didn’t have time for my devotions. It definitely was not a positive start to the day. I was able to pray as I went, but it is not the same as praying God’s Word. Thankfully, I had some time in my first hour at the school to spend time in the Bible. I am thankful that God always provide a way or a time to be with Him if I am looking.

Today’s scripture is from Genesis 13-14. It would be easy to focus on the issues surrounding the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, but today God impressed on me the heart of Abram. When faced with conflict between his business and that of his nephew Lot, rather than using his obvious position of authority to get the best land, Abram humbly offered Lot the choice of where to live. How often do we make those types of choices in our life? How often are we willing to listen to God and take the apparent less profitable path? As we see in this passage, it is Abram who continues to prosper, Lot finds trouble and Abram must rescue him. Abram chose to be humble and trust the Lord for his provision and the result was success and blessings!

I was once again working with specific students today and spent most of my day in Mrs. Sharry, Mrs. Kimble, and Mrs. Kirby’s classrooms. Once again I was blessed to be in their classrooms. All three of these teachers are exceptional educators. It saddens me, however, when our students don’t appreciation these ladies. I am convinced that much of the discipline difficulties we have in the school can be discovered in the lack of parental support. In both Mrs. Kirby and Mrs. Kimble’s classrooms I was amazed to see students arguing with the teacher. We need to pray for or teachers, that they will be blessed as they serve in such a thankless profession.

I found that the same is true for our students on my bus today as well. I had to stop the bus and rearrange the entire bus to deal with students who don’t know how to behave on a bus.

After getting home, I (had a bowl of ice cream of course) and then mowed the yard. This pretty much wore me out. I am now ready to go to bed. Have a blessed eveing!